John-Luke: Good morning, University of Utah. My name is John-Luke Shroeder.

Canyon: And I’m Canyon Sargent. Thank you for tuning in to this week’s episode of SLCreate, the podcast giving a platform to creatives across the Salt Lake Valley.

John-Luke: We have an amazing guest lined up for y’all today. So as we say,

Canyon & John-Luke: Let’s create.

Canyon: All right. So thank you, everybody, for being here. Welcome to the official first episode of SLCreate. My name is Canyon, and I’m here with John-Luke. And today we are joined by two very special guests, Jake Sorensen and Kaiden Crawford. Jake finished his undergrad at UVU back in 2019 in Business Management and International Business. He then later went on to get his MBA here at the University of Utah. He now works as a Senior Associate of University Talent Acquisition for KPMG US. Kaiden, on the other hand, started his educational journey at SLCC studying Arts and Business and later went on to receive his Bachelor’s degree in Entrepreneurial Studies here at the U as well. Currently, they are both heavily involved with the Utah MBA Angels, which is a group here on campus. And yeah, so basically that’s the intro. Thank you, guys, for being here today.

Jake: Yeah, you bet.

Kaiden: Sure thing.

Jake: Excited to be here.

Canyon: To kind of start us off, I just wanted to ask what is the background story of how you guys got involved with MBA Angels, and overall, just what is MBA Angels?

Jake: Yeah. So when we were in our MBA program, a lot of it was focused on management and upskilling for our careers. But obviously, there are a lot of us that have a lot more interest beyond that. And so business has always been obviously my undergrad, and obviously getting an MBA wanted to kind of tap into some of the alumni network piece. Part of getting an MBA for me was to keep the alumni network together. And I didn’t really feel like there has been, I mean, a lot of alumni outreach on campus for me personally. I’m sure there are a lot of tools that I’m just not connected with, and I need to be better about finding them. But for me, I was like, how can I better connect with my fellow alumni once we’re done? And number two, we were in this class with Rob Wuebker on campus here, and he was teaching us about venture trends and venture foundations. And we went through this class where he was talking about how anybody can be an angel investor. He introduced us to a young 16-year-old angel investor who was actually cutting checks. And we were like, “What in the world? This 16-year-old is cutting checks, and we’re all like professionals in the industry in our various backgrounds, not cutting checks to founders.” Like, how can we do this? And so we kind of just sat after class, and we’re like, “We should be doing this. We should start a group, and we’ll figure it out from here, but let’s start connecting with founders. Let’s start looking at companies. Let’s start just using our skills, our backgrounds that are very unique, whether it’s HR like me, or finance, or military, or marketing, or whatever your background is.” We had doctors in our MBA program, and we felt like that added value to founders, and knowing that there wasn’t a minimum check size, it’s literally just will the founder accept the check or not? That was a huge reason for us to be like, “Okay, let’s just start connecting with founders and see where we can add value and help in our spare time outside of our regular full-time jobs.” So yeah, it’s kind of how we got started.

Kaiden: So again, I was in Rob’s class, but this time as an undergrad. And he was big-time playing these guys up, “Hey, these guys, these MBA guys, they’re banding together, and they’re going to write their own checks. They’re going to be their own angels.” And he asked if anybody wanted to get involved with these guys or at least talk to them. And so I just raised my hand. And then, you know, one thing led to another. Next thing I knew, I was helping these guys draft their bylaws, and now I’m running meetings with these guys. Yeah, it’s been sort of a wild journey. Yeah. I did not see this happening. If you had told me this was happening like two years ago, I’d have told you you were crazy.

Canyon: Correct me if I’m wrong, but it started about two years ago?

Jake: Yeah, March of 2024 was like we were in our last semester of the MBA. And so we were like, “Okay, we’ve got to keep this alumni network together.” But also, we were current students. And so we were like, “There’s got to be a way for the next cohort, whose current students or future MBAs, to stay involved and like start to get more connected with meaningful projects and actually apply what you’re learning in the MBA.” It’s like there’s no better way than to talk to a founder who’s experiencing all these challenges, and you have tools that can help them. So it was a really cool thing. Yeah, it just kind of seemed like it was the right fit.

John-Luke: That’s great. I love the focus that you’re putting on keeping that connection together because I know everyone always talks about how important connections are. So that’s really cool to see. Building off that, what is your guys’ vision for the future of this program, and how do you see it shaping and affecting Utah’s growing entrepreneurial market?

Jake: Yeah. So we really heavily emphasize college founders. That’s been our background. One of our first checks was to TraceAQ, I think we’re allowed to say that… Um, but yeah, TraceAQ is one of our portfolio companies. They’re two environmental scientists, atmospheric scientists, I should better say, from here at the U. And we were connected by a professor who knew them, who was like, “This is an interesting company to start learning what deal flow is like and to start listening to pitches.” And after like a year of listening to them and talking with them and seeing where we could add value, we were like, “Hey, let’s pursue this a little further.” So that’s one of our biggest emphases is there are students on campus, whether it’s at Lassonde or Doman or here, I mean, in Kahlert, that are trying to build things. And how can we as a group of students and alumni better connect with current students and be like, “Hey, we have tools that can support you.” Especially from like, I was in the PMBA, so there’s the professional MBA and like the executive MBA programs here on campus, where people have 5 to 30 years of work experience before coming back to school. So they’ve experienced all these things in industry, and we should be connecting more the undergrad level with the MBA level, and like helping blend that. So that would be my vision long term is how do you continue to get students interacting while they’re here? Cause at some point they are going to leave here, and that’s the hope is that they go on to the world and make a huge difference. But how do you keep them connected? How do you get them connected while they’re here? And getting them the right resources to do that. Then the other thing is, we don’t just invest in college founders. So we have made another investment in some college founders, but three of our other investments are actually post-grad. So we have a guy that graduated from Weber State, made a really cool company around a golf SaaS platform with Backswing. Um, and so we’ve been working with him. He’s a second-time founder. We’ve invested in a company called CollabZ. Um, and then we also have a company called Vollebak, which is like a consumer products company. So we have this portfolio of five companies. Two of them are currently college-based, but it has been, where can we add value? Where can we continue to help people learn beyond the MBA? And that whole idea of lifelong learners is so important to me. And that’s going to be our core value going forward is how can we continue to be lifelong learners together? Um, and while you have the opportunity to be in an incubator like a university, this is the best place to do that.

Canyon: Definitely. So you mentioned Vollebak.

Jake: Yeah.

Canyon: So I’ve been following this company. They’re awesome because they’re based out of Copenhagen, and they’re specifically focusing on like, space travel and living. Rob again, hate to just keep mentioning Rob, but he mentioned that basically there was somebody on a Joe Rogan podcast, and he was wearing a Vollebak coat. And it was like in the second hour of the podcast, Joe Rogan’s like, “So like, what’s that coat you’ve been wearing this whole time?” I don’t know if you’ve heard about this.

Jake: I haven’t heard that. I should watch that.

Canyon: Okay. So basically Joe Rogan was asking about this coat, and they ended up going on this 20-minute tangent about Vollebak and everything that they’re doing. And apparently it’s been just blowing up like at least for Vollebak, like that exposure, even though it’s so late within that podcast, like you can imagine how many people follow Joe Rogan, and with that. Maybe one day we’ll be like that. But, uh, that was just a funny side tangent. Sorry to go on that, but I just remember hearing about that about Vollebak. So, how close exactly do you work with them? So you start out by investing, obviously, and becoming an MBA. What do the steps after that look like? Like, are you still heavily-

Jake: Like after you actually cut a check? Is that what you mean?

Canyon: After you have cut the check and invested, are you heavily involved with decision-making, and what does that kind of, what does your integration and kind of interaction with these companies differ across the sizes of the companies? Because you mentioned that you work with a lot of student founders, which I’m guessing are a lot smaller compared to these other companies like Vollebak.

Jake: Yeah. I would say Vollebak’s in a really awesome position where they’re really well established, and we came in a lot later to that company by way of an introduction. And honestly, because of that, we sat down directly with Steve, kind of on a late-night call for him. It was very, very late. And we were like, “Thank you for taking the time to talk to a bunch of students who are trying to figure this thing out. We’re so imperfect, and we don’t really know what we’re doing quite yet, but what we do know is that we have a bunch of skills that we’ve acquired, and we feel like we can add value, whether it’s through our networks or our skills.” And at some point, we want to be able to leverage both of those. But if nothing else, for starters, like we just think what you’re building is really cool. And that’s kind of how that relationship started. And it was like, because of the individual who introduced you, that’s, I believe, that individual is like guided to me, and so we’re going to let you also be with us. And so it was like direct to the founder. That check was like, whenever we cut a check, we try to do it directly to the founder so that we can have that high touch. They can call us, send us an email, whenever. And a lot of what we do is honestly done between like 8:00 PM and midnight or 8:00 PM and 2:00 AM. Like you’re doing your regular full-time job, spending some time with family, and then it’s like totally a passion project in addition to that. And that’s because I mean maintaining the lines between like your regular work and doing that, and then like your interest, like you have to have some work-life balance that way within yourself and managing your time. But it’s super cool that the founders trust us to be like, whenever you have time to connect, let’s connect. And so we have some that are like, “Hey, I’m going to give you a call, and we’ll talk for an hour.” And maybe that’s some of our like Terraflow, that’s down at iHub. Like working with Bryce as a founder is really awesome. He’s just a really high communication, high communication, or like very intentional in the way he communicates and what he communicates. And that’s the biggest thing. I don’t want to get in the way of a founder ever. And I think Kaiden would probably feel the same like that.

Kaiden: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jake: The founder has a really cool idea, and you’re like, “I believe in it, and I’m here as a resource to you, but I’ll be a guide when you need me to be a guide. Other than that, like I’ll stay out of the way so that you can keep creating and building.” Because they’re obviously time-intensive, work that they’re working on as well. So just trying to balance that. I think it varies company to company. Um, CollabZ, I talk with the CEO more than I talk with the founder. And in that case, it’s a really unique company that I’m just grateful that I get to have them in my network and support them. And luckily, I’ve been able to connect them with people that have added value already. And I think we have a couple others, like Trace, we usually get quarterly updates from. There’s somebody else who manages that one, but-

Kaiden: It really just depends on your relationship with that person, right? Sometimes it’s high touch, sometimes it’s not. You know, I think it was kind of like, what’s the shoe company? Heddas?

Jake: Yeah, with Heddas, yeah.

Kaiden: So I mean, like Heddas, she wanted to know, like, how we were going to be involved. And it was kind of a hard question to answer at the same time because it’s like, well, what do you need at any point, right? So I mean, we’re not just going to come in and try to butt in and be like, “You should do this, this, and this.” Or cloud the airways with like, “Hey, have you thought about this or this?” So I mean, if you feel like we can add value like Jake was saying, come our way. We’ll help you workshop ideas, even, right? If it can be just that simple. And some companies, they really just don’t need that. Like, “Hey, here’s your reports. Thanks for coming aboard,” basically, right?

Jake: Yeah. I would say there’s some founders who come to us like that, “How are you going to add value?” It’s like, well, I’m going to learn about what you’re building first.

Kaiden: Mm-hmm.

Jake: I want to know what this is. And sometimes, like I really don’t believe in what you’re building. It’s an interesting idea. I don’t necessarily love the product, or I’m like, you’ve already got a really solid vision. And I don’t think I can add value to that. And so sometimes it’s like that, or other times it’s the founders like, “I have this clear vision, and this is where I see you fitting potentially in that. Maybe think about that.” And honestly, a lot of what we do is early, early stage. It’s like pre-seed and seed. And so you’re looking at these companies that are like, before there’s actually any product or anything. It’s kind of like the two dudes in a lunchbox concept if you heard Rob talk about that. I love that concept because it really is. It’s like I have an idea. It’s me and my co-founder, or it’s me as a founder. And it’s like, okay, do you believe in this idea? What’s the next steps to make that idea a thing? And half the time, I’m realizing even as we’re like building this and like continuing to expand our alumni network and contending to expand our portfolio of potential investments, it’s like what am I passionate to pursue? And if I’m passionate, I’m pursuing it. If I’m not, I’m kind of like, you know, this isn’t the best fit. Naturally, it’s like you’re monitoring your behaviors, I guess, and seeing what’s driving you. And so I think founders see that. And also sometimes I’ve met with founders, I’m like, I don’t even know if you believe in your own vision. And you’ve got to go back to the drawing board and really figure out if you’re like really driven for this. And that’s I think a great way to, the diligence is totally different than what you’d see in a later stage. I can say that for sure.

Kaiden: Yeah.

John-Luke: I think that idea of kind of getting involved with the company with these founders before even like pre-seeding, that’s super interesting to me because then it’s kind of the founder having to sell themselves without having any tangible product. Would you guys say there’s like two or three traits that you look for in a founder or a company or an idea that you see, like if you see those two or three traits, you’re on board right away or or like two or three traits that make you more likely to want to cut that check?

Kaiden: Ooh, the one off the top of my head, if they’re sociable, right? Are they easy to work with? You know, if you can’t talk to people or they can’t go out and you know sell their company and themselves, then they’re probably not a great bet, in my opinion, honestly. So if I had to pick one off the top of my head, I would say that’s it.

Jake: Yeah. I think it’s the pursuit of learning. Like these industries and work in general is evolving so fast. Even what I thought coming out of undergrad, what I was going to do someday, that has evolved into AI, and so many different tools that I’m like, well, I would have never thought about that when I was in my undergrad. And the only reason you see it and are exposed to it is because you start to see the world in a bigger picture. So, as a founder, like when I’ve seen a really successful founder, or at least what I believe is a successful founder, I should probably say, who knows if they’re going to be successful in some cases yet. For me it’s somebody who’s able to ask hard questions, ask questions, and be curious even when you might get rejected, or you might be like, I don’t know, might be a totally different answer than what they’re expecting. And being able to do that’s part of like, when you’re in the business, you have to pivot a lot. And so being able to understand what’s actually happening. And that’s a challenge too. Like, I think there’s some founders who think they know what’s happening, and we’ve had them come in and present to us, like, really, that’s actually technology that already exists. And so I think a level of research you have to be kind of really diligent in the in the deal flow piece and the diligence piece, excuse me. You have to be really diligent about finding out if what they’re actually talking about exists already or if it’s unique and different, if it’s novel, I guess is probably the better word. And if it is, then it’s why is it novel and how long can it stick around for? And that’s really- I’ve read like Angel by Jason Calacanis. That’s a book that I love, but he talks a lot about just being able to see if a founder can actually take it to a merger, acquisition, or an IPO. Those are the only two reasons you should cut a check, because if you’re only going to get like dividends, like that’s not a good enough reason. Or if the company’s going to fail, obviously don’t cut the check cause you’re losing money. You’re burning cash. And so I look at it like, do I actually believe that it could be? And to do that, you kind of have to do some deeper research and ask some bigger questions. I find myself often times asking people who are in the industry, maybe that I don’t know, like, “What do you think of this?” And like, “Is this actually on par with where things are going?” Or just asking simple questions, even like that, to get a better idea. So I think hopefully that answers it, but in general, a founder who’s done that research and that legwork and can walk circles around me telling me why they’ve actually- and I’ve sat down with a founder who literally was able to show me all of this legwork through Excel docs and different things that were created. I’m like, that’s so much time just put into being able to tell the story.

Canyon: Yeah, that’s great. Thank you, guys.

Kaiden: Just one thing I want to add to that, though. They talked about it; well, it was sort of like a big deal at the Connect Capital Investors Choice Conference. They were talking about you know what makes you investable as well. And one thing they recommended is that the way they put it was: so founders who ask for checks get advice. And founders who ask for advice get checks.

Canyon: Wise words right there. I love that. Yeah, thank you, guys, so much. The next question that I’ve got for you guys: so specifically with MBA Angels, it’s specific to the University of Utah, obviously, and hence being in Utah. What makes Utah a unique environment for early-stage startups, and are there any companies that you’re working with that specifically adhere to the environment that we all live in?

Jake: Yeah. I think Trace is a great example of that, focusing on, like, smoke tracking. I have asthma and other breathing stuff that way. And being that we have the inversion here locally, that was, we started honestly looking mostly at ESG companies when we first started this. Like, how can this actually make an impact within maybe more of an environmental impact type of company? And it was a great recognition that maybe this company actually has a path to actually scale and grow and be profitable while also making an impact. Because I’ve always had this idea of like maybe there’s a disconnect there. Can you make an impact as well as make a profit and become like a unicorn, potentially? And who knows if they will, but it’s that whole idea of I believe that the founders have the ability to figure out if it can and to figure out where this fits. And I think they’ve already found really cool fits with some of the people they’re working with. So that’s one thing I would say in Utah, I guess, environment that we’re with, the mountains and like that. We actually went to a conference up in Park City as one of our first events that we ever went to. And it was with Open Snow, and it was a really- Ryan Begisimo invited us, manages a really large fund, and I don’t know if I’m allowed to say who with, so I’m just gonna mention he manages a really large fund. He was a really great contact for us, where he’s like, “Hey, you guys are learning, figuring this thing out, come to this event.” And it was really cool just to see that there’s so many companies here locally that were in the ESG space. And then once we started branching out into other industries, I was like, oh man, there’s so many companies that are in, I mean, snow sports or consumer products or different things that way related to Utah. And then tech with Silicon Slopes and everything that you have going on down there and like the growth that’s in the tech market here. There’s a lot of companies that have a SaaS background and base. Or just like FinTech and like real estate prop tech companies. And I started to realize, in general, just that Utah is budding in that area, even though maybe like you see Silicon Valley, you see Austin, you see Boston, you see New York. Like, I don’t know, those I’m New York and Silicon Valley being the two biggest, and then Austin and Boston for me being probably the next two. But I see those big markets, I’m like is Utah on scale with that? Like are we on are we at the same level? And you start to see that, yeah, I think it is. It’s the biggest thing is we have a network that still needs to kind of come together in a lot of ways, similar to ours, like we have resources. We have knowledge. We should be leveraging that a little bit more. So that’s an opportunity for the Utah market is to just get people off the sidelines who could be willing to do this or could add value that are just yeah, not yet.

John-Luke: So I’m curious to both of you, what is the value of goal setting, and how do you think founders and investors can utilize goal setting as a tool to achieve their success?

Jake: You want me to go for it?

Kaiden: Yeah

Jake: I’m the goal guy. I’m a big believer in goals. I used to do vision boards, and I was a big believer in envisioning where you want to go. When I worked at the liquidation team down in Orem, when I was going to UVU, I had this sticky note, and we had a laminator. I wrote like three; it was three sticky notes long. But I wrote down all these goals, and I’m like okay, I’m going to laminate this now, and this is going to be my main- it’s going to be my written vision board that I have here at work. And it was really cool because I started to see like just writing down where you wanted to go. I might have gotten there in a totally different way than I imagined, but I still got to either that goal specifically or a goal very closely aligned with that. I can say specifically for my current line of work, like my full-time job. When I was in high school, I was like I’m going to work for a big four firm. I’m going to work for an accounting firm. This is really crazy, and I don’t know how I’m going to get there. And I was terrible at accounting, like I was not good in school at accounting. And I was like, I’m not going to make it. How am I going to do this? And I had family members who had ties to the big four, and I was like, okay, there’s a way to get here. There’s got to be. And I was a manager at the credit union where I was before, which you probably saw. And my friend referred me, he’s like, hey, I think you’d be a fit here potentially. You should explore this. And I’m a big culture guy, culture and human capital is like really where I feel like I excel. And, so yeah, I started to connect, and that was really what aligned. But when the goals started, like that goal was set when I was 18, and it took, I mean, almost 10 years, it was 10 years to fulfill that. But it was, I mean, I wrote that down with the ambition to pursue it, and maybe sometimes I lost track of where I was going. Maybe lost the vision, lost the sight. But it’s cool to see that everything comes back sometimes full circle. And some of my other goals, like you mentioned when we were just chatting beforehand, like releasing a country album. Like, I just make music on the side for fun. And I just over the years released singles, and I was like, I’m just going to patch together some of those singles, but then I’m going to release a chunk of songs, and I’m just going to put them together. And that an album is just like a story, right? And I realized, all of these songs tell a story, and it was my personal story or people that I know their story. And so some of the goals that I feel like I end up writing down, I think sometimes, like I said, it can be where I’m actually going. It can be that I do want to have the multi-unit properties or be something like that someday. Like, I know it’ll take time to scale there. And I’ve had rentals myself like single-family. I’ve realized, kind of for me, that you have to get into that scale, you have to go a little bigger. Multi-units are the way to actually make money in it. But, I think in general you have to build the right network around you as well to get to your goals sometimes, because sometimes it’s your network that’ll actually point you in the direction of that goal that you set 10 years ago. Kind of like my friend. And I’m a big believer in, like always maintaining the relationships that you make because you never want to burn a bridge. Even if you have disagreements, being able to talk those out, say sorry, do all those things, because down the road like those people are going to be the ones that are in your corner. So goals are huge. I have a ton more goals beyond those that I’ve posted on my LinkedIn, but I think every founder should be looking at a goal that’s maybe five to ten years out where they see the company. They should see where the exit is. Like, if I don’t see an exit strategy with a company, it’s hard for me to want to invest in a company.

Kaiden: That’s a big question to ask.

Jake: Yeah. Huge question. Where’s the where’s this going? You know what I mean? But anyways.

Kaiden: I think I’m kind of similar, but I think I’m a little bit more fluid. So in Jeff Davis’s class in his Entrepreneur Marketing, he makes you do a vision board. It’s like the background now on my gaming PC monitor. And you know it consists of everything from like, you know, Hank and the boys slamming beers in the alley to wingsuiting to my ideal, you know, Japanese style house, you know, this that and the other.

John-Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kaiden: I’ve also got like things from Shark Tank in there. So, you know, and I’ve actually- there’s lots of other things I could do. I could AI generate these galaxies and have like a really sweet background, but I love that one that much more. Because I look at it every time I boot up my computer, and I’m like, this is where I’m going. This is what I want. It’s a big reminder on what my values are. And it’s never this thing, I never have this thought of like, oh, this is what I want. It’s always this strange feeling of like this is where I’m going. Like I was saying. And so, do I set like incremental goals? Probably not. Like, is there milestones? Right? Like I’m an MBA one right now, and it’s, well, I want to get this and this out of accounting. But, well, really, what I need to do is I need to finish the accounting. And then what I learn in between is, you know, really up to fate, up to the professor right? So are things a little bit more loose? Yeah absolutely. And this is just how it always kind of worked for me. Like you know, about 10-11 years ago, I didn’t have anything. I had 89 cents to my name, and I was like, what, like 90 cents away from defaulting? I remember during that time, though, I remember walking- I was taking a day off, and I remember walking down- I lived in San Diego at the time, but I remember walking out of my apartment building, and I remember passing all these homeless people in the street. And I remember thinking the only thing separating me from being the this guy one of these guys is, and no offense to them or anything like that, but the only thing separating me from me and these guys is my car right now. So, I went back upstairs, and I, you know, I got myself dressed and cleaned up, and then I went and worked right? I did at the time, I was a private driver, right, and things like that. And I had a private clientele, and I could fill in my time with Lyft and Uber and things like that. So I mean you you really got to put in the work. And depending on what your incremental goals are, that’s really up to you. I think there’s absolutely a means to an end there. But life’s kind of wild like that. You don’t really know what’s going to happen. And so you got to be like pretty free flow. You know, have an open mind as you move forward. But know that you’re at least moving in a direction that works for you.

Canyon: So, as I could imagine, I’m hoping there are some founders out there listening to this or at least people who have ideas and ambitions and goals that they might want to follow. What advice would you guys specifically give somebody who’s maybe just right now at a concept or an idea? And what would you suggest their next steps be?

Jake: Yeah. I think there, when I was at  UVU, I started a company called Attendee, and it was this whole idea of connecting people on campus. So just as an example. I was so worried that that idea would get stolen. You don’t even share the idea with people, and then it turns into this five-year pursuit of like you bring in people little by little and you like keep this hush hush. And I’ve realized, you can definitely operate that way. Some people can. I can’t. That’s just not how it works, and what I’ve seen. The people who, yes, there’s some things you definitely need to protect. I’m not saying go be willy-nilly with all your like IP and stuff. But I think there’s some things that are kind of basic within building companies and within management or within hiring people or within just getting your idea from a concept to actually a product or a service um that you can talk through with mentors and advisors. And for us, Rob’s been an amazing advisor. We also have Ken Krull, who’s been an amazing advisor. Cord’s been an advisor. Victor Bennett’s been an advisor. We’ve had so many of these people along the way that have, I can’t forget Davidson from our finance class. He was one of the first professors to let us come in and talk about what we were thinking about doing. Man, I’m just, all these people who just kind of along the way you’re talking about it, and you’re saying this is what we’re thinking about. “How is this different?” They sometimes would ask, and you’re like, that’s a good question. I don’t think we’re much different yet. We’re pretty much what everybody else is doing. What we actually have come to, I think, is different. And I think that’s because we started to ask that question, how are we different? How are we positioning ourselves? The fact that we invest our own money, that’s, I mean, while we’re in school or just post-grad and as an alumnus, I think there’s a really interesting concept there. And to be a member of our group is one thing you don’t have to like, that’s you can be a member, you can just learn, and be a lifelong learner. You can connect with founders and add value. Cutting a check obviously follows all the guidelines that are necessary to be able to actually do that. But, yeah, I think there’s just so many opportunities to ask questions, and founders should be asking questions about their ideas or people with experience in that industry. And if they don’t have people in that industry, their network. Who in their network might have ties to that? And I think that’s where I’m always thinking is who do I know who could have a potential, I guess, insight into this company we’re looking at right now? Playper is one of the companies we’re looking at. His parents, alumni of the University of Utah and BYU, live in New Jersey and found us through a platform. We’re like, okay ,let’s connect. And he’s like Hey, what do you think of this? Like, do you think this is like something that you would be into or do you think your kids would like this? And it’s literally this paper toy that’s made out of like really durable material. And he sent it to us, and my kids are like, oh my gosh, this is so fun and they’re telling stories. I’m like, okay, I think you’re on to something. I would have never thought that, but I’m testing it literally right now, testing what you built or asking people about it. And so I think being willing to ask questions, even just to people about the product, if you’re actually developing a product, or yeah, the idea.

Kaiden: Product development’s huge. I remember from O Foundry with Tina. Probably the most impactful class I had in my entire undergrad. And that was largely because- so the basis of the class, basically, is that you have to have an idea that you are going to work on entrepreneurially. And then it’s like a round table discussion, you have to set KPIs, and you’re kind of like beholden to your classmates to get things done, and to push yourself. And then you’re giving feedback the whole way. And one of the main things that comes up all the time is that, like you know, is your product good? Why did you choose this product? How are you going to validate this? And a lot of times you have to go out, and you have to put it into the market. You have to talk to people about it. And for some people, that’s pretty painful, but you have to get over that. Right? So I think really that’s all. I was kind of just adding that there was that, you know, product development is huge. You have to validate these things. I think they call it a demand test, honestly. Yeah, if you’re not getting yourself out there, then you’re not going to get anything done. You’re not going to develop anything.

Jake: I like what you said, though, because literally sometimes the answer is this is terrible, this is not the right direction, and you need to change. And I appreciate sometimes the bluntness and like being able to have those critical conversations, crucial conversations, whatever you want to call it, where you can have a level set with somebody, being like, hey, I think this is why I believe this isn’t aligned. Some people, when they’re out pitching their company, when I pitched my original company to other people, back in my undergrad, there are some people like this is never gonna go anywhere and they would give me direct reasons, and I was like, eh, I don’t believe you. I kept pushing forward. So like a founder has to have that mentality sometimes of like, thank you for the insight, I want that, and to be able to move forward. And sometimes it has to be that level set where it’s like, hey, this is why I don’t think this is actually gonna go anywhere. But then there’s also the idea of like, I’ve seen most people who are supporting founders, they will say it’s a cool idea, and it’s really unique, and sometimes that’s true, and sometimes it’s a matter of like, yes, that’s it’s potentially true, but maybe try this thinking about it this way, and it’s never like, do this, it’s a think about this type of thing. But I think there’s opportunities to kind of, yeah, get people in the right direction and be really blunt or upfront with them as well.

Kaiden: Oh yeah.

Jake: Because then it sometimes, it’s those are the moments when it’s like, I still believe in what I’m doing, but I’ll sit in my car afterwards after a conversation like that and be like, okay where do I go from here? And those become the next growth moments that you need. And so, yeah.

Kaiden: Also, you mentioned earlier that sometimes, like yes, founders do need to just kind of throw it to the wayside. There is some manner of audacity that you need to have as a founder.

Canyon: Definitely. There’s a saying always thrown around in our class that if you aren’t embarrassed by the first thing that you’re like getting out into the world and trying to sell, then you’re too late at actually working on it.

Kaiden: Are you really taking that risk right now? Also, I think it’s probably worth saying that, like you know, something made for everyone is made for no one. You know you can’t please everyone, nor should you. You know, so you got to find that happy medium, or you know maybe ideally hone in, and you know find who your right people are.

Canyon: You need a niche.

John-Luke: I like a lot of what you guys were just talking about. And I’m going to circle back to something you talked about earlier. You mentioned how a lot of the people that are part of this organization have very unique backgrounds. I know you come from an accounting background. You have military experience. How do you think those unique backgrounds add value to a founder? Like coming from the investor’s perspective, what value do you think those unique backgrounds give an investor looking for someone to invest in them, that differentiates you guys from a different investing firm?

Jake: Yeah. So when I take an angle of looking at a company, I’m usually looking at like the human capital needs, or I’m looking at like the culture of the company, and like how is it going to operate? Or how does it currently operate? And where can it change? Like, I just talk to people about like, you gotta take care of your people. You have to have a really strong culture right off. Of taking care of your people and having a really- going above and beyond for whatever client you have or whatever product you’re serving, selling, like making sure that you’re going above and beyond to get that to the people. So like having those instilled values and behaviors, I think, is really important. And then I would say some of just from what I’ve seen from outside of our backgrounds, somebody with a finance background might be able to dive a little bit deeper into if they have numbers, great. Or if they don’t have numbers, hey, how would you potentially build this up to say this is what our valuation is, and help them with that? Or just like helping them through ideation and creating what they’re actually building. I’ve seen some of our people who have marketing backgrounds; it’s about telling your story, and it’s showcasing the elements of their story before they even go sell. Or it has been like, “Hey, let’s go build a sales program for some of the companies that’s further on.” And you connect the individual who has that specific skill set to the founder at the right time. And so I think that’s probably the best way to answer that is and how we do it. I think we’re still figuring that out, too. Like, it’s very much sometimes there’s moments when, like, maybe we’re like, “Hey, what does this founder need right now?” It’s been a minute. I feel like the best founders are like giving us updates, and we’re able to kind of like discover through, we ask for information rights. So we want to know where the company is at. We also ask for the data rights and data room, and everything that way. Just to be able to see the things that are actually happening so that in real time, if we see something, we can be like, “Hey, this is what we’re noting. What’s causing this? Or can we help you, can we help you with this?” It’s usually asking permission, too, because it’s still like the founder is doing what they’re doing for a reason. But I’m always asking is like, is there any way I can support you? Kind of just like I always have been taught that, like the people that you’re around, like that are leading something, you ask that leader how you can best serve them, or learn from them, or help them so that you can get what you need, the direction you need to better help them down the road. It’s just being all hands on deck kind of. And our hours are pretty odd. Like, sometimes it is somebody who reaches out really late, but it’s a lot of the founders I’ve connected with, they do stay up late and work on their ideas. They’re just relentless in that pursuit. So I’ve noted that that’s a character trait.

Kaiden: They say not to quit your day job either, right? You don’t want to give up your security for this thing. I mean, like, going back to the whole audacity thing, but like that’s just a little over audacious, I would say. So yeah, this is your little secret thing that you got in the corner of your garage, like “I’ll show them. I’ll show them all” sort of deal. So yeah, it’s late nights. I mean, like we’re- I’m a full-time student, and I work with these guys, and I work with another angel firm. And so the only times that we really have are like in the nooks and crannies of the week. Back end of days. Maybe this one day during the week, at least for regimented time frames. Yeah. So I mean, you got to squeeze it in where you want. If it’s your passion, you’ll find a way.

Canyon: Okay, guys, we’re gonna start to wrap it up here. Thank you guys again so much for being here. One last question, we just want to ask, where can students go to learn more about you guys, as well as anyone who’s not a student here at the U?

Jake: Yeah, so we have two ways that are easiest to contact or connect with us. One, we have our website utahmbaangels.com. Basically just tells you about our vision everything that way. People can become a member through there. It’s $10 a month. Pretty, I mean that’s pretty much nothing. It’s like give up a beer for a week or whatever is kind of what we told people originally. But it’s yeah, it is what you’re paying $10 for a subscription to Netflix or whatever. If you’re really wanting to learn about this and talking to founders like it’s totally worth that. And I know there’s ways that we need to improve on that. Our newsletter is something that we’re starting to do, that’s going to be a great way to connect with us. And if somebody wants to get on our newsletter list, I’m happy to kind of connect and figure out what we can do there. We also have our Discord, and we have the Discord that’s like locked down, that’s like, hey, this is only for members, but then we also have the open version. So if like somebody’s not super sure they want to become a member yet, and they just want to be in the general chat, we just love chatting about businesses or things that we’re seeing, cause that’s how you keep learning, is just digesting those common interests or things that are interesting to people.And then another way I would say to get to be involved is to continue to connect with professors like Rob and Cord and that are talking to us frequently. I would say learning about what this is from them in the classroom is a great way to actually figure out if this is something you’re passionate about. Because if you’re not passionate about it like we want people who are passionate about learning about this. And I think a lot of people are or could be. I think there’s a lot of people on the sidelines who don’t get involved because they’re worried they don’t know who to connect with. Maybe they’re like I can’t invest capital right now.

Canyon: Just feel too young.

Jake: Yeah, too young. Like, there’s no reason to feel too young, especially when there’s a 16-year-old angel investor out there who taught us how to do this and is showing us the ropes, who has a portfolio of like I think 11 or so companies. I don’t even know how many at this point, maybe even more than that. But kind of humbling, yes. Yeah, it’s super humbling, and you don’t have to have a certain level of credentials. You don’t have to be, yea,h I don’t know. It’s that whole idea that Rob teaches, where you don’t have to be very rich um to learn about venture capital and to see where you could fit in this picture. A lot of the analysts that I’ve met at these venture firms they’re coming out of school right, and they’re working for these firms, so those people are doing it, they just connect and network. And so what better way than to network with these companies earlier on. It can be a tool to springboard your career if that’s what you want to do, or if you want to invest your own capital, then I mean you connect with us and figure out how that works for you, down the road, you know what I mean? Or I mean now. The other thing I’ve noticed and there’s a lot of people who have money that you would never expect they have money and so I think a lot of people are like oh that person’s actually has money to invest and it’s kind of crazy when you think about it but never taking somebody just at face value cause there’s members of our group who I’ve been would have been like oh that surprised me. And you, I’ve just kind of realized you never make those assumptions because yeah, people are different and have different backgrounds and different upbringings, and there’s a lot of different things that way. Skills, maybe things that they’ve created. Maybe somebody is an excited founder, and they haven’t even told us until they’re in the group. You’re like, wait, what? So it’s kind of like it’s just interesting, never take somebody uh for granted, I guess that way, and thinking what they are or what they aren’t.

Kaiden: As far as connecting with us, I think Jake pretty much covered that, honestly, short of like giving out our personal contact information.

Jake: Contact at utahmbaangels.com

Canyon: Or if you have any last remarks or any ideas you kind of want to-

John-Luke: I’ll hit you with a question, actually, if you had one piece of advice for an upcoming founder

Kaiden: Founder?

John-Luke: Yeah, someone looking to maybe get involved with you guys, looking for an investment maybe. What would that piece of advice be?

Kaiden: As far as like preparation or..?

John-Luke: Yeah, like if they’re coming to meet with you, let’s say in this theory, what would be one piece of advice you’d have for them that you’re kind of looking for?

Kaiden: Really nailing your pitch deck and like really like if you’re not passionate I’m assuming you’re coming in with passion about this thing that your doing cause your trying to prove something to the world honestly, so like coming in very educated about your thing right not only do you need to speak intellectually about what you’re trying to pitch to us but like passionately as well so make sure that you are coming in to represent this thing you are trying to prove to the world uh so I feel like that might be kind of a shallow response and I apologize if it is.

John-Luke: No, no, that’s great, awesome, thank you.

Canyon: Yeah, I guess-

John-Luke: Yeah

Canyon: That’s all we’ve got for you guys

Jake: We tapped you guys out

John-Luke: Cue the outro

Canyon: Thank you, guys, so much. We really appreciate you guys coming in

Jake: We thank you for the opportunity, I think it’s important for us to be able to tell students what we’re doing and I think founders here on campus I think again you have all these cool things going on and so how do you let students know that there’s money out there potentially and I look at it way more than that like yes we write checks but we do add value in a lot of ways um and so what better way to get connected with a bunch of industries real quick than to work with our group and connect and talk through what you’re thinking through.

Kaiden: So I’ll just add one more thing to that is that it’s sort of like a pay-to-play sort of thing. I guess you could maybe- is was one way to think about it. But it’s also like experience is the best teacher. Come get your feet wet. And I will say that my network has exploded, probably, like exponentially, since I started doing this. Yeah.

Canyon: And for just 10 bucks a month.

Kaiden: 10 bucks. Yeah. Seriously.

Canyon: Just a beer a month.

Jake: Yeah. For real.

Kaiden: So come on down.

Jake: Yeah. We’d love to have you.

Canyon: Join MBA Angels. You heard it here first. Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in. And we’re out.