Transcript

Reporter 1: Well, a new study shows employers don’t value college degrees like they used to. Instead, they’re turning to workers who bring skill and experience over education. 

Reporter 2: A lot of people are thinking, maybe I should try something else. I’ve got to worry about tuition one then I’ve got to worry about that student debt.

Reporter 3: We have more than double the amount of students graduating these days than compared to the 1980s that just means there’s going to be that much more competition in the job market for these same types of jobs.

Reporter 4: The Trump administration will never force taxpayers to pay student loan debts that don’t belong to them. Borrowers will now be clearly expected to repay their loans, and those who default on their loan obligations will face involuntary collections.

Malcolm: Welcome to Uncovered, the Daily Utah Chronicle’s investigative podcast. I’m Malcolm Swope here with Emma Ratkovic. In this episode, we’re exploring an ever-changing question: is college still worth it? With student debt piling up, tuition costs soaring and the rise of AI reshaping the workforce, more and more people are asking, is college still worth it? In this episode, we talk to students and faculty at the University of Utah to hear their thoughts on the shifting landscape of higher education.

Emma: Third year nursing student Anastasia Varela shares her college experience and reflects on how well it has prepared her for a career in nursing. Is there anything you wish school or your department specifically focused on more?

Anastasia: Focusing more on, like advising sessions. I feel like when I started school, I didn’t have a great idea of all the classes I need to get done. I didn’t have a good idea of what my workload would look like in nursing school. 

Emma: What resources or opportunities have you found that may be underutilized by the student body? 

Anastasia: I think the counseling center is greatly underutilized, like I only realized about the counseling center like my junior year of college, like I had no idea that I had a resource where I was able to get free mental health services and free therapy. 

Emma: Do you know what you want to do for your career, and how has college influenced that decision? 

Anastasia: I do know what I want to do. I feel like ever since I graduated high school, I knew that I wanted to be a nurse. So I feel like college hasn’t necessarily changed the decision a lot, but just given me more information on, like, what my future as a nurse will look like, and the different opportunities that I can be like a nurse, a nurse practitioner, different things like that. 

Emma: What do you think your life would look like if you didn’t go to college? 

Anastasia: I think if I didn’t go to college, I probably would have gone on a trade school path. I could, like, become a medical assistant, or I have my EMT license, I would have probably just like worked for an ambulance, but I think it would have definitely limited my possibilities and opportunities.

Malcolm: After hearing from a current student, we now turn to a recent graduate, Christian Roy shares how his college experience helped shape his career in wealth management.

Christian: So I started at the U and in 2020 with the Business Scholars program and it took me a little while to kind of decide what my major is going to be, but I ended up choosing operations and supply chain. And went throughout college kind of trying different things, getting involved with different internships and jobs to make some money, and eventually found myself at Morgan Stanley in Salt Lake, working in wealth management operations.

Malcolm: Do you think you would there would be any chance of getting your foot in the door of that industry without a college degree?

Christian: That’s pretty interesting. And I think that, yes, it is possible. What’s what’s pretty interesting is there’s actually two people on my team that didn’t actually graduate college and they got pulled over into the company from E Trade, which was a which was its own separate company, and then was later bought by Morgan Stanley. And my boss has worked with a lot of people in his life, and he’s big on the idea that a degree doesn’t always make a huge impact, and what what really matters is, if you have that work ethic, there’s like other qualities that are a lot more important. However, I think in today’s world that especially with AI detecting on resumes and stuff, it’ll look for a degree. And if you don’t have a degree, a lot of places will shoot you down really quick. So I think overall, in most cases, you would need a college degree to get into that sort of industry and role. 

Malcolm: What university resources would you recommend students try to take full advantage of that has really helped you out post college?

Christian: One of the biggest things that helped me out was definitely my career coach. Because when you’re kind of just blindly applying to a bunch of things and sending in the resume that you made that you think is really good. They always know more and they’ve had tons of kids coming in and out and kind of experimenting. And they really know what these types of companies are looking for, and it definitely depends on what you’re trying to get into. Like, in this day and age, there’s so many different jobs with totally different like, requirements, and they’re looking for different things. I only did it like, once or twice, but they’ll help you dial in your resume and then, kind of like, give you like, links to places to apply, and just like, help you look out for stuff. A lot of them are very traditional, though. So if you’re trying to do something more like entrepreneurial or exciting, or like, people are being like remote digital nomads, like they’re all against that, but that’s one thing I’d keep in mind. Like, I went down a route that’s like for a standard, typical route, and you don’t have to do that these days, and there’s so many more opportunities that if you open your eyes to like, you can find that these career coaches don’t really understand. So they can provide a lot of valuable information, but there’s also a lot that, like, you might know more about than they do. I think also career fairs are extremely important, because not only does it like, help you get your foot in the door and like, get an application in and hopefully get an interview with certain companies, but it also just helping practice, talking to people, learning how to present yourself is really, really important when it comes down to the time that you’re interviewing. 

Malcolm: What do you think you’d be doing if you hadn’t went to college?

Christian: Good question. I would probably try to figure out some way to make money remote. There’s a lot of that going on right now and it’s always looked pretty exciting, obviously, to figure out how to, like, how to pay for yourself while you’re living in Bali or Costa Rica and just surfing all the time. So I think I would either do that or maybe try and, like, get into something like real estate, where you just need a license and then can grind and doesn’t need a college degree as much. Yeah, I’d either probably be bumming it and surfing somewhere or bumping it and surfing somewhere while also doing a remote job.

Emma: We spoke with Giovanna Percontino, a career coach in the department of communication at the University of Utah, she offered insight into the value of a college education and its relevance in today’s world. What aspect of the college experience do you think will be most valuable for students when they enter the workforce?

Percontino: It’s a great question. There’s a lot. I mean, I think the academics are important. It’s a really great setting where students can get the expertise of their faculty, even if students have maybe tried things in high school before, the experience of being in that space with an expert, a professional, someone who is probably in the space before they decided to become a professor, is invaluable. So if we just start there, that’s definitely a very important thing, the support systems when we think about career coaching and we think about student success coaching and student advisors, these people are part of a student’s community. They’re where they can go get help, information, support. It’s the first place students find a network. It’s the first place students find community, and then you haven’t used the word community. It’s where they find their friends, it’s where they find their people, and that’s their network as well. It’s four years of really becoming part of something. 

Emma: Do you think there’s any like resources, opportunities, or programs that you feel like under are underutilized by students at the U?

Percontino: Career Services. Get to know us. Come see us. We are here. It’s part of the services we provide. When I hear from students, “Oh, I didn’t even know you were there” … I’m kind of glad that’s changing, because I want them to know about us. I think I want students to realize that they don’t have to do it alone. Parents and family are great, but career coaches … much like I said about faculty being previously out there and having experiences, same goes for career coaches. We’ve been out in the workforce. 

Emma: What major changes have you noticed in like students career paths as just throughout the three years?

Percontino: I mean, I think it’s ever-changing, period. If we look at what career paths look like, I mean, I guess they used to be a straighter line. Years ago, you would kind of choose your vocation, or where you think you saw yourself, and you’d stay there for 20 years. But technology is changing, and the world is changing, and students are getting more comfortable and people are getting more comfortable, realizing it’s not a straight line, and that there are skills that students transfer, or will transfer, as workers, from role to role to job to job, that’s a good thing. I like the fact that you can take your professional skills, aside from the great tech skills, you learn those professional skills like being reliable and conflict management and leadership skills. That’s really important too. But like I said, the technology is changing. So what’s exciting too is we realize this with the advent and the popularization of ChatGPT and DeepSeek and things like that. You know, it’s it’s changing things rapidly, but ultimately we drive how we use those kinds of technology. So while it does change, there’s something to be said for the humans ability to manipulate it and work with it and teach it. 

Emma: Specifically in communication, how do you see it impacting?

Percontino: I think it’s supplemental. I know we’ve talked to people who think there are some concerns about what it can do in the arts, or what it can create podcasts, it can you can tell the difference, though, and I think it’s a tool, and we need to continue to view it as such. I’m a believer in the ability of humans to create like we thought it was going to happen with the internet, but we took newspapers and we just moved them to a different platform, like, newspapers did not die. Radio did not die. It just moved to your phone, if anything, it opened up some more opportunities. You had said something on the phone about a question about value of higher ed, bachelor’s degrees, and I was thinking about that a little. It’s still valuable. They’ve done studies. We’ve looked at the percentages. The salaries are higher. You do not you cannot achieve the same kind of salary with only a high school degree or a GED. It’s the next progressive step. So salaries are higher, the experience is more enriched. You’re creating that network of people. It’s really important. And I do love what I see happening with curriculums and academics. And I do love that, yeah, there are now podcasting classes, and there can be AI classes. That’s the direction this is going in, you know. So it’s, it’s super valuable to get, you know, an associate’s degree and then transfer somewhere, or just straight up, get your four year degree. If they choose not to get a master’s in communication or master’s in marketing, that might be okay. You know, it really depends on how they want to use the discipline.

Emma: Okay. Well, I guess the final question, because this is what the story is on — in your opinion, is college still worth it? 

Percontino: Yeah, absolutely, 100%. You’re stronger economically. You have more earning power. You’re really, really developing all your skills and building your network. Like I said, you’re learning from these amazing professors and this amazing faculty, and they and us, career coaches, success coaches, advisors, we become part of that new community that you need, as an emerging career seeker to be part of this new workforce. And it’s, it’s beneficial. It really, really is.

Emma: Dr. Manish Parashar, director of the Scientific Computing and Imaging Institute and chief AI officer at the University of Utah shares his perspective on the role of college in a world shaped by rapid artificial intelligence growth and technological advancement. How do you see students being impacted in the job force with the rise of AI?

Dr. Parashar: So AI is probably one of the most transformational technology of our time. It’s impacting all aspects of society. It’s going to impact all jobs and so being aware of AI, being aware of how to best leverage AI as a tool, no matter what profession you follow is going to be critical, right? And so also understanding what the limitations of AI are. AI is a great tool that can help you do your job better, to be creative, be more productive. But it’s also has some aspects that you have to be concerned about, and so understanding what those limitations are are important. I think AI is a great skill set to have how to leverage and know about AI as a student, as a professional in your professional career, as you can graduate from college.

Emma: So have you seen a lot of like AI taking over would you say like for students post grad, like in different careers?

Dr. Parashar: So I think AI, like any of the technology, will change careers. I don’t think “take over” is the right word. It’s going to transform. It’s going to change what you focus on, where the critical thinking that humans bring, the insight, the innovation humans bring, can can be more effective, can be more productive through the use of AI. So it’s going to change what a job looks like, like technologies in the past have done. As new technologies come, they’ve changed. Word processors changed how certain jobs were. Computers change how certain jobs were. The Web changed how certain jobs and the same way AI is going to transform jobs. And so, I mean, make sure that the education we provide the university incorporates that and trains our students to be more effective members of the workforce moving forward, because they understand AI, they understand how to best leverage AI, and how what its limitations are will allow them to be more effective in whatever career they choose.

Emma: So do you think in college, pursuing a degree is necessary for specific majors, given AI growth?

Dr. Parashar: I think it’s absolutely — I think it’s critical. Because now there’s a way that you can be more creative. You have more tools. And so this is the time where you have to be able to gather those skill sets, and it’s independent of what career or what line of study you choose. I think having a degree and a degree that allows you to leverage the technologies of our time to be effective members of whatever profession you choose is critical. So I think it’s a it’s an even more important time to be able to gather those skills and get a college degree. The process of education, of learning and teaching is also going to evolve with AI, so there’s going to be a lot of changes. And we at the U are already exploring many of these things, incorporating these tools into the student experience, both from an administrative perspective, but also from an academic perspective … being able to have an AI agent that can be a personal assistant that can help you learn, that can help teachers be more effective in teaching and developing the lessons plans and delivering the experience to the students. So there’s so many places that we can improve the learning and the teaching experience using AI. And I think that’s how you’ll see these things evolve, very quickly. And again, there are a lot of things that are already being explored and used at the U today.

Emma: So are you worried that AI is going to take over in anyway?

Dr. Parashar: I’m not. I think we have to recognize it as as a something that can make us more creative, more effective solve problems that we have been trying to solve. Improve society by leveraging this new tool. So I think we have to look at it as something that provides us or helps us amplify our efforts, accelerate our efforts, increase the impact of our efforts.

Emma: As we’ve heard from students and university leaders, the value of a college degree isn’t a simple yes or no. For some, it serves as a necessary foundation for a specific career path for others, the answer is less clear, especially when considering rising tuition, student debt and growing interest in alternative routes like trade schools, entrepreneurship and certifications. College still has the potential to open doors, but in today’s shifting job market, it’s no longer the only way forward, as the landscape of work continues to evolve, the real question may not be whether college is worth it, but rather which path best fits your goals, interests and future. I’m Emma Ratkovic.

Malcolm: And I’m Malcolm Swope. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Uncovered.