[Intro Music]

Max: Call me the late Brian Wilson because we are keeping the summer alive. Welcome back to the Can of Worms podcast. I am Max.

Cambria: I’m Cami.

Max: And joining us in the studio today is our guest host, The Daily Utah Chronicle’s very own opinion writer …

Morgan: Morgan.

Max: Morgan.

Cambria: Editor.

Max: What?

Morgan: Oh, yeah. I’m the editor, not a writer.

Max: You don’t write?

Morgan: I write, but my position is editor.

Max: Interesting.

Morgan: What the … [Bleep] It’s too late!

Max: If you’re if you’re hearing this at home, we just got a new sound board in the studios. We will be playing around with it. Cami, our producer, will be playing with the sound board and possibly Morgan as well.

[Sad Trumpet]

Cambria: We have a sound board. So head on down to the Marriott Library’s new recording set up.

Max: Guys, it’s summer. It has started. It’s been summer for a little bit.

Cambria: It’s been summer.

Morgan: Well, officially, it’s not summer until June 20, though.

Max: Look at the big brain on Brad.

Morgan: It is it’s technically still spring until June 20.

Cambria: When it comes to hot, it’s no longer spring.

Morgan: I agree with that at a moral level.

Max: I don’t know about that. What have you guys been up to this summer?

Cambria: I just got back from London. That’s true. I did a London abroad program for the first half of this Spring/Summer, even though it’s a summer term. I guess not summer I learned just now. But I’m jet-lagged and ready to record.

Max: Yeah. Morgan?

Morgan: I’m just employed.

Max: Well, we got two unemployed people and one employed person. It should make a good amount of people for a podcast, don’t you think? Well, you know what I’ve been wanting to do all summer?

Cambria: What’s that?

Max: I’ve been wanting to swim. I’ve only swam once.

Morgan: Right.

Max: But I’ve been really wanted to just drench myself with some cold water.

Morgan: Why did you use that word drench? What was up with that word choice?

Max: I want to get under the water. I like to want to drench myself.

Morgan: Okay?

Max: I want to drench myself.

Morgan: I didn’t say I didn’t like it.

Cambria: Word of the episode: Drench.

Max: Now, here in Salt Lake, there aren’t a ton of places to drench yourself. There’s, of course, I mean, there’s the bathtub.

Cambria: Landlocked.

Morgan: No beaches.

Max: No beaches.

Morgan: It’s such a shame.

Max: We got to find pools. We got to find rec centers, we have to find ponds. But did you know we actually have a great body of lake next to us?

Morgan: What?

Cambria: Like, the great one?

Max: Yeah, the great one.

Morgan: No.

Cambria: I’ve heard of that one before.

Max: Yeah, it’s pretty great.

Morgan: I never heard of that before.

Cambria: We’ve been to the Great Salt Lake, like on this podcast before.

Morgan: The one that you talk about in the Can of Worms episode?

Cambria: Sorry, the very first episode of Can of Worms.

Max: I wasn’t there.

Morgan: I know that Salt Lake from the Can of Worms episode.

Cambria: Morgan is our number one fan and has listed to all of our episodes.

Morgan: That’s true.

Max: I haven’t even listened to that episode. So that’s why I’m bringing it back to the Great Salt Lake.

Cambria: Yeah.

Max: Only to talk about something a little bit different. A little bit different. Something that is tangentially related. Is that correct usage of that word?

Morgan: Correct.

Max: Tangentially related to the Great Salt Lake, but not necessarily about the Great Salt Lake. It’s the Saltair. You guys know about the Saltair? What do you know about the Saltair?

Morgan: I saw concert at the Saltair a couple of years ago.

Max: Oh, of course. Of course.

Cambria: I have no idea what that is.

Max: You’ve never been to the Saltair?

Cambria: Is it like a place?

Max: It’s a venue for musicians to play at. I believe.

Cambria: It’s a building?

Max: Yes.

Cambria: On the Salt Lake?

Morgan: Close-ish.

Max: No. It’s pretty … kind of.

Morgan: It’s got, like those, the architecture that you see on like Sultan towers, like Sultan castles.

Max: A turret.

Cambria: Like those bulbs?

Morgan: Like a bully turret, it looks like an ornament that you’d hang on your Christmas tree. They have those on the top.

Max: You never seen this?

Cambria: No.

Max: Oh, okay. That is what the current state of the Saltair is. But the Saltair actually has a long century plus history, not all pertaining to that particular building. That building that you know of is actually the third version of the Saltair.

Morgan: There are two more?

Max: Yeah, there were two more.

Cambria: Oh, what kind of third version.

Max: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Morgan: What happened to the first … Well, you tell the story.

Max: Now for this episode, I talked to two notable people to discuss the history. Everything that came after the founding. I talked to a gentleman by the name of Chris Merritt.

Chris: So I am Chris Merritt. I am the state historic preservation officer for Utah, and I manage all of the state’s archeological and historic preservation programing.

Max: I’d also talked to a gentleman named Chris Merritt who is writing the book about the Saltair.

Ian: So my name’s Ian Christensen. I am writing a book on the Saltair called “The Lost History of Saltair.”

Max: So with their help, I was able to connect a lot of what came from the foundation of the of the Saltair. Let me take you back, thinking back to the 1800s, late 1800s. Well, actually, mid 1800s.

Morgan: 1800s?

Max: Yes. So we have pioneers coming here, not necessarily the first people to come to Utah, but some loud people to come to Utah that figure out what this place is. They see this is the place.

Chris: You look at the first introduction of non-Native Americans to Great Salt Lake, you know, in the 1840s, you know, the Great Salt Lake was seen as a barrier. It was seen as dead, it was seen as stinky. It was seen as something that you didn’t want to interact with and you just had to work your way around it to get somewhere you did want to go. But with the arrival of folks from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1847, the mindset shifted a little bit.

Max: Where they can extract salt from the lake by evaporating water and extracting the salt from it. And one of these people, gentleman by the name of let me check my notes, Heber C. Kimball, He was one of the guys to extract it, I don’t want to say mined for salt, but he would extract salt from the Salt Lake and he found that people would very commonly just go to the lake and swim and bathe, have a nice time.

Morgan: Really?

Max: Despite the fact that it was smelly and that there were bugs.

Cambria: Yeah.

Max: People would still go because there’s a great big body of water and people got hot because it’s hot here in Utah.

Morgan: Is it true, I don’t know, that people float in the Great Salt Lake? I’ve actually never been in it.

Max: Well, it’s there’s a lot of salt, so. Yes.

Morgan: Well, I know there’s a lot of salt, but I’ve never actually … Is that a true story?

Max: Yeah, people float.

Cambria: Yeah, yeah. The salt content is what makes people float.

Morgan: Okay, well, I’m not a science major.

Cambria: No, no. But fun fact, salt is what makes people float.

Max: You talk like one?

Morgan: I talk like one?

Max: Hey, we all got glasses here.

Morgan: I’m going to put out an opinion article about, you now.

Max: All right.

Cambria: I would actually love that.

Max: I’m not afraid. Anyway, so that was kind of the beginning. Near the mid to late, 1800s was the start of people building resorts to capitalize on the interest of recreation at the Salt Lake. Many, many resorts were built up. One of the more famous ones and the ones the last longer was one called Garfield, and it was rather a rowdy, rather rowdy.

Cambria: Rowdy.

Morgan: What do you mean by rowdy?

Max: A lot of drinking. A lot of dancing.

Morgan: Oh.

Max: A lot of yelling.

Morgan: Like that movie.

Cambria: To all of our listeners. Max did a little shoulder shimmy and it was really nice.

Max: So Garfield was built rather rowdy place, and some people were not too happy, such as the people who were governing the state.

Morgan: The Mormons?

Max: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were not fans of all these rowdy goings on. So they built a pavilion. Pavilion that would be called … I’ll tell you later. But they built this pavilion to deal with a lot of the problems that were arising in these other resorts, partly being the rowdiness.

Morgan: Oh, so when you say pavilion, do you mean resort? Is that what they’re building?

Max: I’m using the words interchangeably.

Morgan: Oh, okay.

Max: So they built this pavilion, resort, whatever, about a mile deep into the lake, because all these other resorts, the lake kept changing, the lake kept receding and falling away from the resorts, taking business away from each and every one. The church decided they’re going to overcome that by just building their pier deep, a mile deep into the lake. And they called it, what they call it?

Morgan: Saltair?

Max: Correct. They called it the Saltair.

Cambria: Excellent.

Max: Can we get an applause?

[Applause]

Max: Yeah!

Cambria: That’s good.

Morgan: I like that you also applauded.

Cambria: It’s a long applause, hold for applause.

Max: Deep into its history. Like how not only did the church build it because they wanted to make money, because they wanted to build the resort to end all resorts. But also because they wanted to. The church seem a lot friendlier at the time. This is right around the time they publicly outlawed and decried against polygamy. They trying to separate themselves from that. And they’re building this pavilion. No where a place for families where a place for fun, where a place for recreation. You don’t have to be LDS to come here, though it certainly helps. And they built this giant pa-vil-i-on. It was beautiful. It was a beautiful place, was designed by Richard K. A. Kletting who also designed the Capitol. And if you look at images of the original salt here, some things that look very similar. It’s a great grand building. I’d love to tell you what style of architecture it is, but I don’t study architecture.

Morgan: So what … Can I ask you a question?

Max: Yes.

Morgan: What the pavilion have going on in it? What made it like fun?

Ian: So the biggest attraction was the swimming. And then also a big moneymaker for the resort was the dance floor. It had the world’s largest unobstructed dance floor. You’ll hear listed a lot of times as being the largest in the world. Well, it’s not the largest in the world is largest unobstructed, which means it was a dome, so it had no pillars blocking the dance floor. The dome is about the same size as the Tabernacle is on Temple Square.

Max: If you guys have been to the Tabernacle, it’s pretty big.

Morgan: Woah, that’s huge.

Max: I know. It’s pretty big. It was quite large.

Cambria: That’s really big.

Ian: I mean, there was other I mean, they did musicals out there. They had a tunnel of love, a boat ride. They had movie theaters. They had one of Utah’s first movie theaters out there. They had Utah’s first bowling alleys. One thing that they did have Skee-Ball, it was actually the 11th place ever to have Skee-Ball.

Morgan: Oh, like Skee-Ball?

Max: Skee-Ball.

Cambria: Like Skee-Ball.

Morgan: That’s my favorite arcade game.

Max: Yeah.

Cambria: Are you good at it

Morgan: Yeah, actually, I’m really good at it.

Max: Well, you should have come to Saltair. They built a velodrome. Do you know what a velodrome is?

Morgan: What is it?

Max: A velodrome.

Morgan: Velodrome?

Max: It’s a slanted track that bicycles can ride around.

Cambria: That’s sick. That’s, like, slanted so that you’re just making turns the whole time? That’s fun.

Max: Yes, there is a giant roller coaster. Utah’s first roller coaster.

Morgan: Really?

Max: Built in 1906 was built on the Saltair.

Morgan: Was it very safe? Did people ever die or did anything ever happen?

Max: Not that I know of.

Cambria: They didn’t have anything to compare it to.

Max: Well, just let me let me tell you about the Giant Racer I. In 1919 they built the Giant Racer I, which was a massive wooden roller coaster. And to my knowledge, nobody died. But there’s some funky safety business going on. Ian was telling me that there is, what do you call it? Restraints. Yeah, yeah, restraints. There was a big metal bar that went onto your lap originally. Customers would be mad because it’s uncomfortable, so they replaced it with the safest thing in the world. A hose.

Cambria: A hose over your lap? Like the thing that goes over, like, multiple laps?

Max: Yeah.

Ian: And I actually have a picture that will be in my book that no other historical society has showing somebody lifting out of their seat, holding on to that rubber hose for dear life.

Max: We got movie theaters, we got Skee-Ball, we got roller coasters, we got bowling alleys. This place was doing numbers crazy, crazy numbers.

[Air Horn]

Max: True, true. In the busiest year for the Saltair, 1924, 500,000 people visited.

Morgan: Wow.

Max: And that’s only about three months, three months. They’re in the summer.

Morgan: It’s built built in the water?

Max: Yes

Morgan: It’s up on like post is it. It’s like elevated over the water and it’s right over. Can you like jump off like the pier walking up to it? How did you …

Max: I think you’re not allowed to.

Morgan: How did you get there?

Max: Where?

Morgan: The Saltair. How did you get there? You said that there were a lot of people.

Max: Well, funnily enough, there’s a lot of people there’s a lot more people visiting than there were people in Utah at the time, 500,000 people coming it within three months. In 1924, population was only 450,000. A lot of people coming in from out of state. In fact, the train that took you into Salt Lake and onto the pier also led to Los Angeles. So a lot of people coming from out of state, from these big cities out west coming to see Saltair.

Morgan: It was that popular?

Max: It was that popular, it was called the Coney Island of the West.

Morgan: Really?

Max: Coney Island of the West because it was so exciting. What can go wrong?

Cambria: Nothing?

Max: Nothing.

Cambria: Nothing went wrong.

Max: And nothing did for many years until …

Cambria: Dun dun dun.

Max: Until …

Morgan: Is there a sound effect for that?

Cambria: Do we have a dun dun dun? There’s a trombone.

[Sad Trombone]

Max: In 1925, a fire burnt down the Saltair.

Cambria: All of it?

Morgan: How’d the fire start?’

Cambria: We do live in a desert.

Max: They don’t have an exact answer. But I do know that there was not a lot of fireproofing.

Morgan: Okay, well, that’ll do it. And it was all mostly all wood, right?

Max: Oh yeah. Lots of wood.

Cambria: Wood n the dry, hot desert.

Max: Yes.

Cambria: That’s good.

Max: Yes. So this happened in 1925, 100 years ago.

Cambria and Morgan: Oh, oh!

Max: Centennial.

Morgan: Oh, wait, only a year after it was doing the best business of its life.

Max: Yes.

Morgan: Oh, that sucks. That’s so sad.

Max: Yep. And they never get back to it, to those glory days.

Morgan: But they you see there were three though.

Max: Well they would rebuild it immediately after and by 1926 they reopened with the Saltair II.

Cambria and Morgan: Oh, oh!

Cambria: Quick turnaround.

Max: Right next to the original.

Cambria: The corpse.

Max: It was a little smaller in some ways. The original was five stories high. This one was only two stories high.

Morgan: It was five stories?

Max: Five. Did I not lead with that five stories?

Morgan: No.

Cambria: You did lead with the huge building, so I assumed it would be tall.

Max: It was quite tall. Saltair II as it’s colloq —

Morgan: Colloquially?

Max: Colloquially known as Saltair II was only two stories, but it was a lot wider, a lot more surface area. But while they’re building all these new attractions, people are becoming less and less interested in Saltair as a resort. As the century went on, people had A.C. in their homes. They had more access to automobiles. Movie theaters were closer to them, like in the city, so they wouldn’t have to go out at Great Salt Lake. It’s pretty far away from the city.

Morgan: It’s pretty far out there. Yeah. So was the was the lake receding past where they had built the structure, by this point?

Max: The lake kept on receding really fast, especially in the 1950s. It reached a point where went past the mile deep pier that they built into the lake, thinking that the lake was never going to go beyond that point. And it went so far that they had to build a tram that led people to the shore of the lake so that they could actually get to the lake.

Morgan: Trams are kind of cool.

Max: The trams is kind of cool, but it wasn’t helping Saltair.

Morgan: It probably wasn’t helping business too much.

Max: What was helping business was the Giant Racer II. I told you the first one burnt down. They built the second one.

Cambria: Woah!

Max: Well, it’s not the same roller coaster.

Morgan: Oh.

Max: It just has the same name.

Morgan: Oh.

Max: This roller coaster was the tallest roller coaster in the world.

Cambria: Just ever?

Max: You can put the applause right there.

Cambria: Oh, yeah.

[Crickets]

Cambria: Nope.

Max: That’s wrong.

Cambria: Nope, nope.

[Applause]

Max: There we go.

Morgan: That was crickets.

Cambria: Okay. Yeah, yeah. You did cricket it.

Max: That’s true. 1932, they built the Giant Racer II, the largest roller coaster in the world at the time. If it was still up, it would be the 12th, tallest wood roller coaster in the world.

Morgan: That’s not terrifying at all.

Max: No, it’s not.

Cambria: You know, you know, I love I love the roller coaster at Lagoon.

Morgan: The white roller coaster? Yeah, I love that one.

Cambria: It’s just “The Roller Coaster” now, it’s not really that white.

Morgan: I think I’ve gone on to like seven times in a row.

Max: That was also one of the first roller coasters in Utah.

Cambria: It’s classic.

Max: It’s great, it’s great.

Morgan: Well i think that is Saltair was still around, it might be really popular now.

Max: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. If that roller coaster was still there.

Morgan: This sounds like an awesome. Like, they feel like there’s, like, nothing to do in Salt Lake in Utah after you’ve lived here for long enough. And this sounds really cool. I wish it was still around.

Max: And that’s why the roller coaster was the only attraction making money at Saltair for a long period of time. The Giant Racer roller coaster at the time, it’s the tallest one in the world.

Cambria: Skee-Ball wasn’t doing it for them?

Max: Nope.

Morgan: They weren’t Tunnel-of-Lovin’ it?

Max: Not really. They were checking their books that they saw and people are only coming for this.

Morgan: Not even the velodrome?

Max: I don’t think they have the space for the velodrome. In the second one, they cut out the three floors. I think the velodrome was on the chopping block. I should have asked. I should have asked. But there’s bad news.

Cambria: What?

Morgan: What?

Max: Well, what? Really, really, really bad news about that roller coaster, guys.

Cambria and Morgan: Did it burn down?

Max: No. The wind blew it down.

Cambria: Oh.

Morgan: So they had people on this thing and the wind was just able we just knocked that knocked that right down?

Max: It was more wind than usual. On Aug. 30, 1957, a wind storm of 75 miles an hour. No one was on it.

Morgan: Oh, damn it. Oh …

Cambria: You can say, “damn it.” On this podcast.

[Crickets]

[Sad Trombone]

[Drum Snare]

Max: What’s the censor button?

[Bleep]

Morgan: Pushing all of them?

[Bleep]

Morgan: Let’s try it again … Ah damn it!

Max: Oh shi —

[Bleep]

Morgan: That better go in the episode.

[Record Scratch]

Max: Anyway. On Aug. 30, 1957, the giant racer two blew over in this unprecedented windstorm. That’s why they don’t build wooden roller coasters that high I guess. Another thing Ian has kept close to his chest is his prevailing theories as to why this happened.

Morgan: Oh.

Max: I asked him what were the factors? And he said:

Ian: I’ve talked to one of the old riding mechanics out there and I have a theory on it, and it’s actually saved for what happened in my book.

Cambria: You know what feels like?

Max: What?

Cambria: Are you familiar with The first episode of Phineas and Ferb?

Max: Where they build a roller coaster?

Cambria: Where they build a roller coaster, and then Candace is like, “Mom, a roller coaster!” And then she turns and it’s gone.

Max: I suppose that is what happened in this case.

Cambria: Yeah, and it isn’t it in that one where a giant magnet on a helicopter lifts it up in a way, so maybe …

Morgan: Oh, you think Ian’s theory is giant magnet on a helicopter?

Cambria: Which would be … Which would be crazy because it’s wooden, unless it isn’t, unless it’s magnetic wood.

Morgan: And he knows a lot about roller coasters and maybe that’s what he got from the guys who built it.

Cambria: And that’s my theory about his theory. Allegedly.

Morgan: Well, what happened to the rest of the Saltair? Because it’s not out there anymore, is it?

Max: No. Gone. Well, after the after blew down in 1957, Saltair didn’t do great business.

Cambria and Morgan: Yeah.

Cambria: Which … the one thing that was bringing in the business.

Max: After The Great Depression, guys, nobody nobody was looking to go to …

Morgan: Oh, The Great Depression.

Max: The Great Depression was a thing, World War II was a thing.

Cambria: Yeah.

Morgan: World War II!

Max: So by 1958, without the roller coaster, Saltair shut down.

Cambria: Shut down.

Morgan: Shut …

Cambria: Sad.

Max: Shut it down. threw up its gates. All closed.

Morgan: So it is standing there now. And we could go into a haunted …

Max: Well, it stood there for a little bit. It stood there for a little bit.

Morgan: So we can’t go into the cool old haunted amusement park?

Max: Well, that’s something my grandma would have done.

Morgan: What do you mean?

Max: Well, as an I was something that Chris. Chris Merritt, the archeologist, told me that …

Chris: If you’re from Utah, ask your grandparents about it. I guarantee you almost every person who’s from Utah has grandparents in Utah. “Oh, I remember going to Saltair when I was a kid.” I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that on tours, how many times I’ve heard it at presentations. It was such a cultural piece of Utah for decades that everybody has a story. People were met and got married there. People got broke up there. People took their families there. It’s a piece of Utah history that’s undeniable.

Max: Yeah, my grandmother has memory problems, so it took a lot of work to figure out when she would have went. But I did put in the work, and she went after 1958 while it was closed down with a boy.

Cambria: Oh!

Morgan: Oh, my gosh. They went abandoned park hopping?

Cambria: Cute!

Max: It had to have been.

Cambria: Must have.

Max: But she doesn’t remember a lot about it except that she went there.

Morgan: That’s kind of precious.

Cambria: That’s nice. that’s nice.

Morgan: So we can we can we go? We can’t go. You just said we can’t go, right?

Max: We can’t go because it burned down the second time.

Cambria: Oh!

Morgan: Burned down? My God. Was it arson? This time?

Max: Supposedly.

Cambria: We still live in a desert.

Morgan: Why?

Cambria: Anything can burn down.

Morgan: Let me have this.

Cambria: Sorry.

Morgan: Why was it arson? Why would someone do this?

Max: Well, we don’t know why it happened. We also don’t know how it happened. It could have been arson. It could have been, there’s some people saying it was just a homeless man who lit a cigarette and just burned down the whole place. Nobody really has a definitive answer because people weren’t doing records as deeply about those things.

Morgan: That’s fair.

Max: And also nobody was working at Saltair and that’s why it burned down so quickly and so fiercely.

Morgan: Do we have any, like, record of like what it looked like while it was abandoned but still standing?

Max: Well, there are a lot of pictures, but there’s also a movie.

Cambria: Say more.

Max: Called Carnival of Souls.

Cambria: Okay. Well, that sounds awesome.

Max: Filmed in 1961 came out in 1962 by a filmmaker named Herk Harvey. Saw the Saltair while he was driving through Utah, thought, “That looks cool.” And made a movie there. He paid 50 bucks to rent the pavilion.

Morgan: Only 50?

Max: Only 50, and that’s ’60s money. So I don’t know if one of you wants to do the math for that.

Cambria: I sure don’t.

Max: Okay. Paid money to film in the Saltair. Just a small, barely any budget, cruddy B-movie.

Cambria: It can’t be that bad.

Max: It can’t be that bad. Now, guys, I’ve actually, I’ve actually brought the Blu-ray here of Carnival —

[Drum Snare]

Max: That wasn’t necessary. I brought the Blu-ray here for Carnival of Souls, which I own. Let me pull it out.

Cambria: Oh! What? Can I see it?

Max: Yes. And I pulled that with the intention of showing it to you guys right now.

Morgan: Oh, that’s the Saltair in the back there with the little Sultan Towers.

Cambria: For our listeners, there’s a little silhouette of a building with some little some domes. That is what …

Max: That is Saltair II.

Cambria: That is Saltair II!

Morgan: It’s very like Twin Peaks-y looking. Shall we watch it?

Cambria: There’s also a woman.

Max: I brought it with the intention of showing it to you guys.

Cambria: Let’s do it.

Morgan: Okay, let’s watch it, guys.

[Transition music]

Max: Guys, we’re back. We just watched Carnival of Souls. Carnival of Souls, a little horror movie made in Salt Lake City. A lot of cool locations in Salt Lake City.

Cambria: I really liked it.

Max: Including at the Saltair.

Cambria: It was so great.

Morgan: Those scenes in the Saltair were really, were really, really, really, really cool.

Max: Yeah, they’re also very thorough.

Cambria: Starts off, I must say. It starts off with my number one worst nightmare in the world, which is being in a moving vehicle and falling into a body of water.

Max: It was made with zero ambition and it is one of the most influential horror movies of all time.

Cambria: Really?

Morgan: If you like like Twin Peaks, though, or like Kafka, like anything really surrealist. It’s cool.

Cambria: I really enjoyed the first two, like Utah locals that you meet who had crazy accents.

Max: Can you recreate some of those?

Cambria: Actually, I can’t remember now what it was. But it was just it was just sort of like, oh yeah, like real Minnesotan. And I thought that was sort of crazy. Yeah. Maybe. I guess I don’t I didn’t live in the time.

Max: You thought it wasn’t a good depiction of Salt Lake? Of Utah?

Cambria: I thought those two … Well, to me, that movie at … No. Because it could’ve …

Morgan: Well, The only thing that made it feel like it was in Utah was the Saltair.

Cambria: Was the Saltair. It could’ve … We think that it was in Utah. This could have been any weird abandoned carnival place anywhere in the world. And I would have been like, yeah, for sure they didn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t feel like an intentionally trying.

Max: The main character is an organist for a church, but not an LDS church.

Morgan: Yeah and that felt like a Catholic.

Cambria: Go see the movie for yourselves so that you can understand the what we’re talking about.

Morgan: The soundtrack is really cool. It was really cool.

Max: It was cool.

Morgan: So what happened? So it burns down for a second time.

Max: It burns down after they shot that movie, which makes the movie a little more creepy because there are ghosts at the Saltair.

Morgan: Totally.

Cambria: Yeah.

Max: But it burned down and it’s gone. And there is nothing that stands on those original grounds right now.

Morgan: There’s nothing left at all?

Max: There are ruins. There are debris, but nothing, no structures for the most part. And in the ’80s, a gentleman by the name of Wally Wright found an airplane hangar, set it up about a mile south of where the Saltair was and just put some turrets on it and called it Saltair.

Morgan: The concert venue!

Max: And that became the concert venue.

Morgan: Not a very cool concert venue, guys.

Cambria: So, a completely unrelated building?

Max: Yes, except for the fact that’s called Saltair.

Morgan: Oh, so he just took the little, the little, the little bulbous turrets.

Max: Yes.

Morgan: And just put those and just called it the Saltair.

Max: Yes. And it’s like in a similar location to where the old one was?

Cambria: But it’s just playing off of the previous?

Max: Yes.

Cambria: That’s cool.

Max: Yes.

Morgan: I don’t know if I would say that’s cool.

Cambria: A little derivative.

Morgan: Well, it’s kind. Of a shame that he didn’t go for something cooler given the history of the place.

Cambria: Maybe some AC.

Morgan: Yeah. Oh, there’s no AC in that concert venue, by the way.

Max: Wow, you were really close to the mic for that one by the way.

Morgan: I’m sorry.

Cambria: It’s okay.

Max: Yeah, you’re fine.

Cambria: Now you’re fixing it in post.

Max: Oh, yeah, I’ll fix that in post.

Cambria: Fix all 37 minutes of this in post.

Max: Yes. It’s true. Saltair III is the only fully standing thing in that area. But there are still ruins. There are still remnants of Saltair I and II at that original location.

Morgan: Can you guys see them?

Max: Oh, you bet you can. And I got my keys right here, and we’re driving out there.

Morgan: Right now?

[Transition music]

Morgan: Oops.

Max: Right now. This is transition music.

Cambria: Transition music.

[Record Scratch]

Max: We’ve just come back from Saltair. What did you guys think of the Saltair?

Morgan: It was really hot.

[Drum snare]

Max: It was a little hot. How did it go? Tell me about it. Tell me about your experience there, at the grounds, the ruins.

Cambria: I liked it having never been there. I’ve been to the Salt Lake before. It was a little similar. Lots of lots of gritty, lots of salt, lots of poky things saw some lizards, lots of cool bones.

Morgan: The bones were cool.

Cambria: The remnants of things that people just left there, like cans and shoe and one shoe and one glove that truck.

Max: What did it look like for the most part?

Morgan: Flat.

Cambria: Flat. Kind of like in that one scene in “Pirates of the Caribbean 3: At World’s End” in Davy Jones’ locker. Looked a lot like that.

Max: So like the salt flats?

Cambria: Yes, exactly.

Max: Well, it is a lot of salt on that ground.

Cambria: It’s a similar look. Not exactly the same.

Max: It’s sand that would have been there mixed with salt and dirt.

Cambria: Big flat desert.

Max: It’s where the lake used to be.

Morgan: Yeah.

Cambria: They’re kind of like abandoned, dry, derelict lake bed.

Max: It’s true.

Morgan: It’s also sort of looks like another planet.

Chris: And so you can see a lot of the remnants if you know what you’re looking for once you go out and then once you start walking out the causeway towards Great Salt Lake, you’re going to start seeing posts and piles from the railroad that was out there. You’re going to see the power poles still in the salt flats, still chunked off of maybe two feet above the salt flats. And then as you walk all the way out to where the pavilion used to be, and there’s really very little left of salt physically to see when they go over there. You can see where this roller coaster was. You can see every single post where the roller coaster was.

Max: Nothing shows you in greater detail how much the lake has receded than going to the lake …

Morgan: Yeah.

Max: And seeing how much it’s receded.

Cambria: And having to walk all the way to the lake.

Morgan: It’s pretty far.

Max: It’s about it’s about a mile and a half in to get there.

Morgan: And there were there were a lot of gnats, though, so we couldn’t get in the water.

Max: There were a whole bunch of gnats.

Morgan: And that makes me sad.

Max: I would have.

Cambria: Luckily for us, Morgan is delicious. And so they got bit and so we didn’t have to.

Max: But we did have those no-see-um head nets which definitely helped.

Cambria: They did help.

Morgan: It helped them. I refused to wear mine. So if you’re ever going wear a head net.

Cambria: Wear a head net.

Max: Get a no-see-um head net. There’s an old road that would have led directly to Saltair II. There’s a truck that was sitting there.

Morgan: The truck was really, really cool. Really. The wheels were like, really well attached

Max: The remnants of a burned, rusted truck that’s just sitting there.

Chris: You see a lot of the stuff left behind, a lot of the artifacts that tell us the history of Saltair. And so you see glass, you know, drinking vessels, you see soda bottle fragments, you see ceramics from the dining service, from the dining hall. You see a lot of artifacts from the history of that lake, because when this thing collapsed, those fell on the lake. But also people just chucked their garbage in the Great Salt Lake even when they were bathing there. And so there’s just lots of artifacts still on the ground. And part of the outreach I’ve been trying to do with Saltair is having people go visit, inspect and look at these things, but leave the things where they find them. Because it’s in state sovereign land, it’s technically illegal to remove those artifacts, but to just make the argument like those really do connect you from 2025 to 1925 very quickly is picking up the soda bottle and thinking about what family was out here or what guy was taking his girl on a date to salt air and having a soda. And so you can see a lot of that stuff on the surface and a lot of it is from that early 20th century period.

Max: It was pretty exciting.

Morgan: It was nice, honestly. It was like a really nice walk.

Max: It was a great walk. You can check the you can check AllTrails if you want to go on this walk, go to AllTrails. Find “Ruins of Saltair.”

Morgan: We’re not sponsored, but would be.

Max: Not sponsored, but would be. And it’ll tell you exactly what to do to walk there. There’s also a sign all shot up full of holes.

Morgan: Oh, yeah!

Cambria: Yep.

Morgan: The sign says the Coney Island of the West. In case you didn’t believe Max earlier.

Max: You know what’s a buzzword? Third place. Would you like to have a third place like that?

Morgan: Yeah, but it wouldn’t really be a third place because knowing capitalism, they’d probably charge us for admission. Third places are places where you don’t have to pay to get in. Like …

Cambria: That’s the definition of third place?

Morgan: Libraries and cafes and stuff.

Cambria: I just had never heard the term.

Max: Bars are third places, you ever watched “Cheers?”

Morgan: Bars are third places because you technically don’t have to pay to be there.

Max: Also I don’t think that’s actually, I don’t think that’s a spirit — I think that’s a social specification. I don’t think that’s an actual definition specification.

Morgan: Oh, no. It’s a social specification. You’re right.

Max: But bars  … we should have a bar episode. Can we do that?

Cambria: Yeah. Oh we do a bar crawl.

Morgan: You should do a bar episode. So can I come?

Cambria: Sure.

Morgan: Yes!

Max: I can do that. I’ve never been so excited.

Morgan: Guys, they’re just going to keep bringing me back.

Max: But Saltair didn’t offer alcohol, of course. But now it offers nothing.

Morgan: Good segue.

Max: It offers nothing. Now, when you go out there, all there is, is just giant trucks and cars passing by and you get further in. It gets all quieter. It’s very hot, though.

Morgan: Closer to the lake, it’s cooler, cause of the wind.

Max: Possibly. You know what also happens when you get closer to the lake? Pee-u!

Cambria: Stinky!

Max: It gets stinky.

[Sad trumpet]

Max: Exactly. You’re right. It’s a bit of a shame. Chris was telling me that the lake actually gets stickier the more it recedes.

Cambria: Yeah, that makes sense.

Max: The more water, less evaporation and decay of organic matter.

Cambria: Yep.

Morgan: All this stuff about the Saltair is really sad. But like at the core of it is the fact that like, we’re losing one of the great wonders of the world because the lake is receding.

Max: Yeah, it’s harder to swim in that place when there are bugs all over and it smells like poo poo.

Cambria: Yeah. It’s hard to want to save a place when you see what it’s like, but saving it would make it not like that.

Chris: From a broad historical sense. I think Saltair does allow the visitor to reconsider  how they view Great Salt Lake for most modern Utahns and visitors. Utah, Great Salt Lake’s either not a thing to worry about or we’re talking about the water problems, or it’s stinky. And I don’t go there, but it allows us in salt. There’s history to understand why people loved it, why did people go visit it? How did we relate to the lake and why did we take care of it? And how can we do better at stewarding the lake going forward? I mean, to me, the best history is a history taught through the lens of learning something from it, not just facts and figures, but why was it there? Why does it exist? Why is it no longer there? And why are we talking about Great Salt Lake in 2025? It’s because we haven’t taken good care of it. And salt. There was a piece of our relationship to the lake that broke glaciers.

Cambria: Oh, guys, go check out the very first episode of Can of Worms where we kind of cover for this cool stuff about the Great Salt Lake and what we can do and people that are trying to do things about it.

Max: The Great Salt Lake has been a part of our ecosystem for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years. Forever. Well past when the pioneers came here, indigenous peoples have been living by the lake for 14-15,000 years. Growing crops, hunting birds, working with the ecosystem, making sure, not taking from the water, that it would decrease in its levels to the point that it has today.

Cambria: Guys, hope is never lost.

Morgan: And also, like the history of Utah, is so much more rich …

Max: The history is great.

Morgan: Than you’d assume like because like I had no idea of any of this and I grown up here for 21 years.

Max: Go to the Saltair, the original grounds! It’s very cool. You’ll find items all over, items that you cannot take, by the way.

Morgan: Hey, do a Max’s grandma and take a boy out there.

Cambria: I have a hopeful quote that we can we can sort of end off.

Max: We can end that.

Cambria: No, it’s really good.

Max: Who’s the quote by?

Cambria: I’m just going to tell you.

Max: Oh, so you’re going to …

Cambria: I’m going to tell you. I’m going to tell you. And then you’re going to be, you’re going to know because I …

Max: So is this like a game? Like guess the quote?

Cambria: This is a game for you, for our listeners, for everyone … “No cause as lost, as long as there but one fool left to hope to fight for it.”

Max: You want to try that again?

Cambria: Yeah. Let’s get a clean take. “No cause … is lost” — Don’t laugh! — “No cause is lost…”

Max: We need to get a —

Cambria: “No cause is lost …” No. No. Sorry, pickup.

Max: Three, two …

Cambria: Morgan. This is serious.

Morgan: I’m trying to look at you so I don’t laugh.

Max: The Great Salt Lake is dying and you’re laughing.

Morgan: Oh, my God!

Cambria: “No cause is lost, as long as there is but one fool left to fight for it.”

Max: Is that from “Pirates of the Caribbean”?

Cambria: Yeah, it sure is. “Pirates of Caribbean 3.”

Max: Okay, alright.

Morgan: Oh boy. Why do you guys keep touching the wall?

Max: We’re looking for support.

Cambria: You had to be there.

Max: We’re going to support because these are some trying times. These are uncertain times. We’re looking for support because we have power. We have power to take care of the situation, to take out the trash, to get involved with the restoration process of the Great Salt Lake.

Cambria: That’s right.

Max: To rebuild Saltair!

Cambria: Saltair IV!

Max: Saltair IV!

Cambria: Saltair IV!

Morgan: Saltair IV!

Max: From its original glory. Five stories!

Morgan: The Grand Racer III.

Max: A mile deep into the lake! From whence it came. It’s Going to be glorious. Can of Worms.

Cambria: You heard it here first, folks.

Max: Can of, uh, water? Can of salt water?

Cambria: Can of salt.

Max: Can of Salt.

Cambria: Hm. Saltair of Worms.

Max: Anyway thank you for joining us on —

Morgan: Worms of Saltair.

Cambria: Oh, yeah. Thank you for join — Werewolves of London?

Max: Can I finish?

Cambria: Yeah.

Morgan: No.

Max: Thank you for —

Cambria: “Pirates of the Caribbean.”

Max: Thank you for joining us on our worst episode of Can of Worms.

Morgan: Well, thanks for inviting me, I had fun.

Cambria: Thanks for having us, Max.

Max: Glad the opinion editor had some opinions. Thank you so much for listening. Saltair is a really wonderful place. I’m very invested in its history. Carnival of Souls is one of my dearest movies. I recommend you watch it.

Morgan: Yeah, watch the movie.

Cambria: Check out the book when it comes out. Ian’s book.

Max: Check out “The Lost History of Saltair” when it comes out, by Ian Christensen.

Morgan: You can see the movie for free on YouTube and you can get the book for free at your local library.

Max: When it comes out.

Morgan: Can we support Chris anywhere, the archeologist?

Max: Chris Merritt? I mean he works for the state. He’s also on LinkedIn.

Cambria: Keep paying taxes. This is the longest outro we’ve ever done.

Max: Support your local …

Morgan: What do you have an outro?

Cambria and Max: No.

Morgan: I was waiting for you guys to give it outro, I was going to stop talking.

Cambria: This has been our outro, we just say “Bye. Ba-dum-dum-dum.” And it ends.

Morgan: I know the theme.

Cambria: No, no, that’s just what I say unrelated to our theme.

Morgan: Oh I thought that you have a cue you gave in the studio for an outro.

Cambria: No, I have a bit where every time the episode ends I go, “Ba-dum-dum-dum-dum …”

[Outro music plays]

Cambria: And then it sort of, usually I edit it out.

Morgan: Well I know that, but I thought that …

Cambria: But we do have a … anyway.

Morgan: You have music that sounds the same. Yeah. Oh you sing the music?

Cambria: No, no. I just have a bit completely separate from the actual music I use over here. Over at Can of Worms, it’s crazy.

[Outro music continues]

Producer: Cambria Thorley // [email protected]

Host: Max Rhineer // [email protected]

Guest: Morgan Champine // [email protected]