Intro: [music] Welcome back to The Daily Utah Chronicle’s opinion podcast. I’m your host, Estella Weeks, and you’re listening to Point of View.
Estella Weeks: So we are here with Cameron Vakilian. Cameron’s LinkedIn would describe him as the director of advising, outreach and experimental learning for the College of Humanities. But I would love to hear how you would describe your position here at the U?
Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, actually and so that is my former position. I will say director of advising, outreach and experiential learning is what I was doing for the College of Humanities. I haven’t really announced this, so it totally and it’s not on my LinkedIn or anything. So you are getting me in a complete transition here, but very similar work in that I still work for the College of Humanities as associate director for internships and career success. That’s my official new title for the College of Humanities, and that is because I now have two jobs. That’s my role within College of Humanities, I now also work with U Career Success as a career specialist.
Estella Weeks: Well, congratulations. That’s so exciting.
Cameron Vakilian: Career development in general is growing at the University of Utah, we’re trying to bring on more coaches. We’re trying to really put intentionality around college to career, really connecting to more employment opportunities and relationships with employers. So that’s why you see that I have a new role in that way. I’ve always been doing so much within experiential learning, careers, internships, but now I’m a little bit more focused in which is great.
Estella Weeks: That’s so exciting. So today we’re kind of talking all about internships, and this is a big part of your new role. And so would you mind explaining to us just what is an internship?
Cameron Vakilian: The simplest way I can describe an internship is an experience that you take on to help you gain more skills into a field you want to go into, or just you want to learn more about some form of work. So I describe an internship as a way that you can immerse yourself in an experience, whether that’s good or bad, you’re learning more about yourself and you’re gaining professional skills. So with that, I will say what an internship is not. An internship is not a job that has no defined end date, right? Because a job is where you should already be having those skills. The employers hired you to be fully a part of their team, right? And then they’re still training with jobs, and of course, there’s onboarding and stuff. But an internship, the reason why we call it an internship is because you are gaining experiences, you’re learning new things, and you should have a supervisor or mentor that’s guiding you through that process. Usually, you’re a student, but you don’t always have to be a student to do an internship, but it’s that exploratory experience, whether that’s good or bad. We hope it’s always good and it turns into something where you’re like, “yeah, I want to learn more about this,” or “I’m now going to transition this into full time work.” But yeah, in general, an internship should always be an experience catered to your career goals and skill development.
Estella Weeks: Got it, and I know for my major specifically, there is an internship requirement. Do you know if that there’s an internship requirement school-wide?
Cameron Vakilian: There is not. That’s a good question you bring that up because I think more conversations are going on about that. About should an internship be required because they are so valuable for actually gaining employment out there. But it is not required in a lot of programs. In fact, I think the Department of Communication is the only one that technically requires it if you’re strategic communication or journalism.
Estella Weeks: Got it.
Cameron Vakilian: But we don’t require it for the other majors in the humanities, like, you know, history, English, all of that, but it is so encouraged, I almost would encourage students to think of it as a requirement.
Estella Weeks: I think it should be required in every major, university-wide. Do you believe that as well?
Cameron Vakilian: I think so to an extent. Yeah, I think the conversations that have been going on about it are also to do with accessibility, right? You know, can students get access to internships, especially paid internships, right? Because more and more that conversation is happening. We need more paid internships. So like you can do unpaid internships, fine, but we really want to encourage more of those paid internships. So there’s a question of accessibility. So if we make it required, how can we truly make sure everybody gets an internship and gets one that’s paid? Because if you get credit for your internship and it’s required in curriculum, that means you’re paying tuition to take that internship course, right? So then there’s that added, you know, if you’re not getting paid for your internship, there’s that cost. So that’s one of the things that is in conversation. You know, to make it a requirement is, how do we make it more accessible? But yes, I mean my true feelings are that yes, I wish it would in some form be required, but I don’t necessarily think we need to push that always in curriculum or ways that are just going to cost money for students. Rather, I would have it be almost like a requirement that’s like an informal requirement, right? That you as a student should think of it as a requirement on your resume to have some form of internship or experiential learning.
Estella Weeks: And I never thought about that aspect of accessibility, because in my mind, I would think that if we were to maybe enforce that there could be more opportunities for campus internships and working with a department of a college that would provide job experience in that way, instead of something that’s so classroom-based. Because that’s what I found most valuable with internships, is the real-life, like “this is what your life could look like after graduation.”
Cameron Vakilian: Oh, I would love if there were more on campus internships, more of an emphasis on these short term experiences that many students could do. And I do think if it was required, you would see a lot more intentionality of building more student internships and things like that. So, it’s quite possible down the road that that what will come up as very much needed in curriculum is to make sure students are doing those kind of experiences.
Estella Weeks: And what would you say if someone was kind of questioning the value of an internship? Why is this even something that students should be wanting to do and not just a requirement, like if you were to take a 1010 class?
Cameron Vakilian: Definitely, because the value of an internship is pretty widely known. I mean, a lot of people know you have to do internships, but they may not know exactly how to get the most out of an internship. What makes an internship very important is the connections you’re building and the skills that you’re learning. So it may seem, you know, almost like, “Oh, it’s a requirement. It’s work. I’ve got to do another thing on top of my school, on top of all these other things I’ve got going on.” But at the end of the day, an internship really is for your development. So it is important to choose an experience that is tailored to you and what you want to be doing, not just taking something because, “Well, it’s an internship, and I was told I was supposed to do an internship.” But it’s actually putting the emphasis on “What new skill do I need to learn out there?” I tell students all this … talk to career coaches, talk to mentors if you want to dive into that more. Like, “I’m interested in this field, what are the skills that I need that I don’t already possess, that an internship could help with?” Also, you want your skills to complement the internship. So you obviously want to choose an internship where you already have some great skills in there, so you can really help the organization. But always, you want to make sure you’re gaining something else from it too. You have mentorship from the supervisor, you’re getting a project where you’re going to see it from start to finish and then you’re going to learn things in in that process. So that’s what it is. It’s not just about, “Should I do an internship?” It’s like, “How do I make the most of that internship? How do I leverage that internship?”
Estella Weeks: So kind of, what I’m hearing specifically is the biggest aspect would be connections. Let’s say you’re in an internship, how would you kind of navigate relationships with people that are usually what I’ve struggled with is they’re a lot older, they have a lot more experience in the field. So how would you navigate relationships with people that are very experienced and possess more than you do?
Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, that’s a great point. I think that can be what is so intimidating about networking, for a lot of students, is, “How do I network with older professionals who know more about this?” Or I can see it can seems intimidating in this way, but at the end of the day, always remember people want to see you succeed in those settings, if you have the energy, if you have the passion, you want to grow, and you make that very clear, they will help you and your networks will grow. And I mean truly, a true supervisor for an internship experience is going to be there for you in that way. They want you to extend your networks. They want you to be seeking new things and initiatives and and taking on different projects. And they’ll be there to support you for that. But it can be a lot, especially when you’re working with very experienced professionals. The more you can just be very authentic about who you are and what you want to learn and what you bring to the table, they’ll see that energy. They’re going to see that passion. Always say things like, “Oh, wow, I saw that you do this, or that the company is working on this. You know, I have a really big interest in that. What are some things I can do to further, to go further with this?” Showing that kind of commitment, that energy, where, if you take on initiatives, like, “Yeah, I want to do that. Can I help with this?” I mean, that’s the kind of attitude that, if an intern has it, [they] will go far in your networks. And where I see pitfalls, usually, is if a student just stays a little timid in that process, doesn’t reach out to more than just their supervisor and kind of just sees it as “what is the job you want me to do and I’ll do it.” It’s not just about that. It’s “what is the job that you want me to do,” but also, “where can I grow from this?” And “how can we mutually help each other in this process?” A good supervisor too will learn from you just as much as you learn from them. I’ve supervised interns myself now, and I will tell you, I get such pleasure out of the energy that they bring and what they teach me. And I know I can offer a lot, and I have a lot of experience that I can teach the interns, but I also learn from them, and I want to see what they’re interested in, where their strengths lie, where this will take them after the internship, whether that’s staying here in company, or if it’s going somewhere else. So yeah, I would say that’s a good strategy.
Estella Weeks: So going above and beyond, and not just relying on the job expectations. And when you’re in that position, it’s intimidating to be like, “Oh, there’s this project I’d really love to work on, but I don’t want to intrude. I don’t want to pry.” And usually internships are very short periods of time, so if you do, kind of find yourself in times where it’s a hardship or it’s kind of taking a toll, I always just — might not be the best thing to say, but it’s only for a little period of time, and you only have that much time to connect with everybody and make the most of like each experience.
Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, they know it’s short term, and that’s why you do it. We want to get the most out of it, and not just sit there and wait for the internship to get done and say, “Oh, maybe I learned a couple things,” but really — and remember, people are busy too. They’re not always going to think of what you could be doing or ways that you can contribute where your strengths are. So you got to take on a little bit of that initiative yourself: “Oh, I’m really good at this. Do you think I could help you all by doing this, because I have a really good idea about how we could do this.” I love that. That kind of energy is exactly what drives success, and I think it’s exactly what you mentioned. It’s really just putting yourself out there in the best way that you can. I know that there are experiences I’ve seen where interns [had] negative experiences because they didn’t feel like they really went anywhere or did anything. But students do have to remember — interns need to remember — that it is on them a little bit too, to foster those kind of connections. But a good supervisor will recognize that and be able to help you grow. And so a regular meeting with your supervisor is very important.
Estella Weeks: Yes, I would love to ask you if you have any specific memories from internships you’ve done, and what was the biggest takeaway you learned from them?
Cameron Vakilian: Oh, yes, I have many. Yeah, I’ve had many internships in my life, and that’s why I’m so passionate about this, because I’ve learned so many different things from each of those internships. I would say one big takeaway I think I had was when I did an internship right out of grad school actually … this is a story I often talk about, because it really involves taking initiative. I got that internship by just walking into the center and asking if there was any opportunity to work on stuff. I gave my elevator pitch. I gave my background. This was right out of grad school when I was traveling — I was trying to get work in D.C. So in D.C., you can go everywhere. You can go [to] southern Maryland, northern Virginia … so I was all over. I went to the University of Baltimore — or, I’m sorry, University of Maryland in Baltimore — and went into their community service center, and I asked if there was any kind of opportunity to work. And it led to me sitting down with the director, and he’s like, “Yeah, you know, we’ve got some alumni projects going on. Like, would you want to work on that?” And I was like, “Yeah, here’s my strengths, here’s where I could really help. You know, I just got done with grad school, and I learned these things and I have a big passion for this.” And that was great. And what I took away from that was, just ask any time you just want to learn something new or grow. Ask, because if you get a no, you get a no, but if you don’t, it’s only going to just further help your development and you’re going to gain more connections. So that was one. I think, in a lot of ways, [for] some internships I’ve had, I’ve taken on projects that I get to truly see ownership of. And I encourage those kind of internships. When you get to be a part of a project or do something that doesn’t involve so much of you [needing] to have it step-by-step shown to you, but that you get enough training, the gist of it [so] that you’re diving in, you’re doing it and then you’re seeing it start to finish. When I’ve had those kind of internships, that establishes I’m pretty good at kind of just working autonomously in that way, and that relieves the pressure from the organization. They’re very happy with that. They value that a lot. But also the fact that [when] I am kind of seeing a project start to finish, I am gaining really valuable skills in accomplishing tasks. And also, I’m showing that I have a strength somewhere. And when you show that you have a strength somewhere and that you see a project [start] to finish, that can transition to you becoming the head person of that project, leading to full time employment, leading to a great position, another network, somewhere where you could bring on that same strength. So always see your internships as a way of you really wanting to show them that you’re good at something and that you’re growing in something, because you might be put as the point person for that thing. Because they would love that, right? I mean, a lot of times these these internship providers, they’re hiring you on because they need something taken care of that they can’t do themselves, or they just don’t have time to do themselves. They also need to make sure they’re in it for your growth. It can’t just be about them. Like to see that you’re good, and you know that you’re gonna grow in this and that you know you’re in good hands. But boy, if you can take something off somebody’s plate, I mean, that’s the biggest advice I would offer somebody in life. You can take something off someone’s plate, they will appreciate you so much and they will make sure that you’re successful … meaning they might connect you, they’ll put you in their networks, they will try to stick out for you. When you do a good for them, they will do a good for you.
Estella Weeks: Well, Cameron, thank you so much for that. I mean, I think all students should strive and try to complete at least one before they graduate, because they seriously have so much value, and I don’t think you really understand that value until you do one. So thank you so much for coming on Point of View today. I will be linking in our transcription resources to meet with advisors if you would like to get more information on internships.
Cameron Vakillain: Yes, please come meet with me if you’re College of Humanities for internships. But also, you know, there’s lots of people to help you through this process. You don’t have to be in it alone.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Intro music courtesy of Pixabay
Host/Producer: Estella Weeks — [email protected]
Guest: Cameron Vakilian
